Minding Your Movie Business: New Trends in the Film Business, a free workshop for emerging filmmakers featuring special conversations with industry leading writers and producers. Moderated by Craig Emanuel.
Panelists
- John Cooper, Emeritus Director – Sundance Film Festival
- Charles Randolph, Writer – The Big Short
- Donald De Line, Producer – Former President and Vice President of Paramount Pictures
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Transcript:
God will God as the greatest demonstration
[Music]
the thing is you right and as you as you know you
thank you
[Music]
good evening my name is Craig Emanuel and I’m truly honored to serve on the board of the March on Washington film
festival and to be moderating for the third year in a row a series of virtual
workshops designed to give valuable advice to emerging writers directors and producers or anyone who wants to know a
little bit more about the nuts and bolts of our industry which is in a constant state of change today we have three
extraordinary panelists who are highly successful in their own areas of the business who are going to talk about the
changing Trends in the industry with a focus on their own areas of expertise each of the three panelists have had
long and successful careers who I know are all going to you are all going to enjoy uh listening to so let me tell you
a little bit about our three panelists Charles Randolph is an academy award-winning writer I’ve been
privileged to work with for more than 20 years going back to his film The Life of David Gale his other films include the
big short film that focused on the 2008 financial crisis for which he won the
Academy Award other films include bombshell a film that focused on various female employees speaking out publicly
about Roger Ailes that ultimately led to his downfall the film starred Charlize
Theron Nicole Kidman and Margot Robbie other films written by Charles include Love and Other Drugs which was based on
the book Hard Sell the evolution of a Viagra salesman which starred Jake gyllenhaalen Anne Hathaway it is fair to
say that Charles does not shy away from high profile topics Charles is a writer
that producers love to work with and actors and actresses want to perform his lines he brings a reality to his
characters whose dialogue makes us want to focus on every word he has written knowing that it was not chosen randomly
but to conjure up an image or an emotion that is going to impact the audience Charles we are so thrilled to have you
with us today Donald the Lions Korea spans more than 25 years in the film and television
industry he is active today developing and producing both film and television
content in 2022 Donald produced a feature film don’t make me go for Amazon
Studios starring John Cho which premiered at the Tribeca film festival in television his current series Billy
the Kid begins shooting its second season this spring for MGM plus Donald
produced the 2018 Blockbuster film Ready Player One directed by Steven Spielberg
and scored his first major hit as a producer with a 2003 film The Italian
Job starring Mark Wahlberg Charlize Theron and Ed Norton his prior films
include going in style starring Michael Kane Morgan Freeman and Alan Arkin Michael bass hit Pain and Gain starring
Mark Wahlberg and Dwayne Johnson and Ridley Scott’s Body of Lies starring Leonardo Dicaprio and Russell row Donald
formally served as president vice chairman of Paramount Pictures and president of Touchstone pictures and
oversaw such films as pretty women What About Bob Father of the Bride Edward and
the worldwide Blockbuster Armageddon Donald serves on the producers branch executive committee at the Academy of
Motion Pictures arts and science as well as the Executive Board of UCLA School of
theater film and television and is currently president of The Producers Guild of America after listening to all
that Donald has done I have no clue what Donald does within his spare time if he
has any Donald thank you so much for joining us today finally but by no means least John
Cooper for three decades was a member of The Prestige Sundance Film Festival programming team in the early years he
moved from a programmer to the director of programming before eventually being named director in 2010. from 2010 to
2020 Cooper oversaw all aspects of the undowned Sundance Film Festival in
addition to expanding sand dunce into Sunday’s Sundance Film Festival London
Sundance Film Festival in Hong Kong and the ignite Program for Young and
emerging Talent aged 18 to 25. other work the Cooper has been involved with
includes guests curating and being a juror at Major festivals around the world from 1995 to 1998 he served as the
Director of outfest held annually in Los Angeles and in 2020 he was accepted into
the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Science Cooper’s resume understands the very
significant role he and the team at Sundance have played in identifying extraordinary Talent whose careers were
started by their films being shown for the first time at the Sundance Film Festival his taste for good material and
recognition of talent is truly extraordinary Koopa we so appreciate
with you being with us today so let’s uh let’s jump in and let’s start with
Donald the line such a pleasure to be here good morning Donald welcome and thank you so much for joining us
over the years you’ve functioned in a number of capacities from being a studio executive at Disney head of production
at Paramount and now a producer in your own right how did you work as a studio
executive and then head of production help you become both a studio and an
independent producer well Craig part of what you do as a studio
executive of course is is supervising oversee your movies that you have in production and I learned early on
growing up in the ranks of Studio Executives that if you had a strong
good talented producer at the helm of your movie you could sleep much better
at night so I learned uh just directly by working with excellent producers and I had the
really good fortune of working with the best in the business you know from Jerry Bruckheimer
to Brian Grazer to Scott Rudin and and more and
um I really really valued their work and professionalism and their
commitment to a movie and uh they were my first line of contact on any given
movie and my partner in the Endeavor um thank you so when you look back at
your own experience if you were going to give advice to someone who wants to become a producer today what would you
tell them are the most important things that they should focus on well I would say
um a producer has to have the courage of their convictions uh more than anything
you have to have tremendous Grit you have to be able to take no for an
answer over and over and over again until you can finally turn it into a yes
that happens more often than not uh projects will gestate for years at times
you know once in a while you get lucky and something comes together quickly
then you can have something take 11 years 12 years longer and it turns out
to have its moment in time so you just you have to carry the torch you have to
keep the flame alive it’s up to you really honestly more than anybody on
that team and then you have to have an ability to
um know you have to have a gut and if you believe in an idea or a story and you have passion for it you have to
stick with it through thick and thin because your gut really counts for something and your movie or your idea
your story may not be fashionable at the moment it may not be what an industry
trend is it may be something that no one understands but if it’s good and if it’s
worthy it will come around it will find its moment it will find its time so you just
can never give up and it can be very hard to do that because as a
producer you don’t make any money until a movie or a project if it’s television
is made so you know it’s not easy you you really have to be able to figure out how to
endure that um thank you um do you think that the role of being a
producer has changed over the last you know five ten years is it is it more
difficult to get films made today you know than it was in in in previous years
and and if so why do you think that is um that’s a good question I think it in
terms of films just theatrical movies yes it is more difficult for sure uh
television I think you know I’m newer to television but it seems to be a pretty
healthy time it’s always going through Peaks and valleys but it seems to you know be pretty consistent
um with movies I’ve always been at a studio so I’ve never been in the independent
producer world I’ve always had a studio deal after I was an executive at Paramount I had a producing deal at
Paramount now I’m at Warner Brothers where I’ve been um for a number of years
but what we have seen happen in the last three to five years is a real sea change
in the movie business theatrically a combination of the streaming business
coming to play in such a huge way and then covid the pandemic hitting
which was kind of a perfect storm of throwing the movie business into a real
crisis and for people to try to figure out what it means now to be a theatrical
movie versus a streaming movie studios saying well if we have to fight
to get people to leave their homes now they got used to a different way of viewing and come to the theater what are
those movies that really will get them out of their seats and to drive to the
mall and spend the money and the parking and the food for snacks and all the rest of it and make that time commitment what
are those things that are theatrical enough um and that has led really to movies having
to be and I’m talking Studio movies Global Blockbusters if you will or
wanting to be Global Blockbusters the the production costs and the marketing costs
are very high but Studios were finding they were spending too much on smaller
films and still incurring pretty high marketing costs and they weren’t making the necessary profit margins that was
not the case when I started in the business and you could make all manner of films we could make
Blockbusters we could make an adult drama we could make a new comedy with unknown
actors and a great new filmmaker we had a full menu you know and we had a robust
business but we also had other forms of income you know we had the home
entertainment income so after a movie played in movie theaters you know people
would rent the movie they would buy the DVD and it was a giant income stream so
things have just really shifted in the last number of years um so it’s very difficult at a studio to
get a movie made right now if you don’t have a global brand if you don’t have a
pre-sold title if you will or basing your movie on some kind of best-selling
novel old television series or a remake even
so so because of the changing role and presence of the streamers in the
business today do you find that you as a producer are focusing on different kind
of content to try and adapt to what seems to be what the market is looking
for you know yes and no I’ve always had a
really diverse slate of genres and kinds of stories that I like to tell because I
like all kinds of movies that’s just the way I’m built but um I I try not to
Pander to what I think the commercial Market is too much you have to to a degree of course but I need
to connect with material on a personal level I need to understand it I need to be in love with the story or the
elements of the story I have to have a passion about working with a filmmaker or a brilliant writer who I’ve always
wanted to work with and those things I find always guide me in the right direction if a movie is a good movie
it will find its level I I think you know um good movies will always find Their
audience and that’s all we can really try to do is make a really good movie and it’s very hard to do as we all know
I mean it was interesting looking at the box office this weekend you had Mario
Brothers break every conceivable record for the for the release of the theatrical animation movie doing 200
million dollars but at the same time you had an Amazon that has typically been a
streaming service make a decision to release the film theatrically you know yeah which is still outperformed the
expectations in in the marketplace so that still gives me hope I think as what
you said if that you create content that can reach a broad Market the opportunity
still exists absolutely and you know you could have a movie like air which seems so modest in
the face of Mario Brothers but you know that’s a phenomenon but let’s say domestically it made 148 or million
dollars this weekend whatever and air made 14 and a half million however
Mario Brothers has a giant pre-sold awareness and title air most people
didn’t know what what it was but people love the movie so what you might see is like the old days where that movie just
keeps playing in theaters and reaches a high multiple and will have a great profit margin relative to what it was
made for whereas I don’t know time will tell with Mario Brothers but I’m not sure what the multiple of that opening
is going to be it doesn’t really matter because it it already you know smashed a
lot of ceilings so um it did um totaled access to development money
in Hollywood has always been in incredibly uh challenging
um and so as and you obviously have a studio deal at Warner Brothers but in
terms of given the challenge of finding development money which is an issue for most Independent Producers today
absolutely how does that impact the way in which to you know access material do
you do shopping agreements do you still option material do you get an idea and then go pitch it to a studio or a
network talk a little bit about how how that experience works yeah I I all of those are valid ways
that I do it uh Craig and have done it um I find it’s horses for courses so in
other words if I have an idea if a writer pitches me an idea and it’s a commercial big sounding idea that has a
four quadrant audience appeal I’ll take it right into Warner Brothers and try to
set it up at Warner Brothers um if it’s something that is more obscure
um maybe it’s based on a great novel and it’s going to take more careful handling in its adaptation and it will need a
very special filmmaker I may go to the agent and say look it I’m I love and
believe in this material but I can’t sell it to a studio right now I need to
either get a script written or put a filmmaker and an actor together with it and I will sometimes get them to
cooperate with me and say okay you have a year we have an agreement a handshake
agreement that I have a year to take that project around and try to put it together
um I’ve also conversely written a check out of my own pocket if it was something that that was the only way uh to get it
and done my own uh smaller options on things I haven’t done that frequently and we don’t like to have to do that but
once in a while there may be that situation so it really comes in in all those forms
um same thing with television you know a lot of Television is like movies used to
be more so now especially with limited series where I’m Packaging
those things together you know and I will get a script and I’ll go get a
director a filmmaker and a star and then we’ll put that package together and then
take it out to the market which was you know used to be much less common in television
but that’s the way the competition is these days I mean certainly it seems to me the one
thing that has become of help to producers and Independent Producers today is the access to you know soft
monies both on a national level and on an international level I mean you can make a film in Australia today and if
you qualify it as an Australian film um you can get somewhere between 40 and
45 of you know the budget and I assume you know when you’re looking at content and
how you’ve got a budget it that becomes a relevant discussion absolutely I mean you know you mentioned
this movie I made last year for Amazon it was a road movie a small you know
what seemed like an independent feature but Amazon loved it and picked it up from us
um and it was a road trip that took place in the United States however we Shot the movie in New Zealand I’ve shot
several movies in New Zealand that were actually set story wise in the United
States but the incentives the tax breaks all of it were so strong that it was
really the only way we could get the movie made and it it worked great
fantastic Donald thank you so much we really appreciate and I know our audience appreciates getting this um
information no doubt we will be speaking again very soon and good mornings we’re at some place in
New York uh I’m in Paris so it’s evening for me um well thank you for taking the time to
join us um this this evening um Charles you’ve been a professional
writer for you know more than 20 years for our young emerging writers how how
did you start your career you know I was a professor in Europe
um and I came to LA to do some courses at UC USC uh on you know I think it was
a Contemporary American genres or something I was interested in film Theory and so uh while I was there I I
knew some people who lived on my street in Venice and they knew some people and I ended up needing fairies and one of
them said oh you should write a script for us of course they never looked at it I don’t think I ever sent them to them but that’s sort of I sit down one summer
and wrote a script uh and uh um that’s how I started I think I was 33.
um important for you as a writer is it to have you know an agent a lawyer or a
manager I mean what are those people do in terms of creating opportunities and are they all necessary
wow what a great question you know um I think the answer answers involved I think lawyers surprisingly correct uh
matter most in some ways because you know what what you know someone’s gonna have to negotiate that deal and
um um you’re gonna need you’re gonna need that and and and and the key to I think
lawyers is making sure you really rely on their their counsel and and and and
and and and asking them what you don’t know um and and how deals can be structured
and looking for Innovative innovative ways to do things you know
when I first started there was a lot of money in in the business you know I remember having dinner with a woman who
was the personal shopper of a writer who was essentially at my level where I am
today right I mean this this got a deal and a studio and but he hadn’t had
enough income to have a personal shopper uh those days are long gone right so so
the the Dual hit of both manager and agent is tough
um the good news the good thing about it is it gives you more voices in the marketplace as you get started and that
and that can be helpful um they do different things the manager sort of guide your career the the agent
provides you a little bit more access to the project flow the deal flow and as well as obviously packaging so there’s
slightly different different animals um it it’s been in worth it to me to to
have all three um though for many people it’s not you know for many people they they just the
the fact that you’re losing 25 of your income or something like that is is just too much so
um you know I would I would say as as the amount of buyers perhaps shrinks in
the future that would be that would be uh a conversation to revisit but right
now I think probably all three for people starting off um is not not a bad situation to be in
but it is it is not it is not free you know it’s something to think about and how how did you get to your first
agent did somebody approach you did you reach out to agents looking for representation how did that come about
I uh had a script um that got me a relatively high profile
um management company uh and the management company then Simon sort of uh that
Buzz got me an agent at CAA so it was it was really it was really about sort of
being in the world of Los Angeles and you know and knowing people and particularly assistance in those days
how you kind of made it is you you moved out there you went you know you you lived a while you went to bars and
restaurants with people you met people who were your neighbors and um you’d kind of get to know the assistants and
the assistants of course are always looking for material and you know then they would read it and get excited and then put it on so I had a relatively
easy entry in a film business I think it lasted that took me about three weeks four weeks from sort of meetings of
people in the house I was staying at to you know to start getting um getting getting representation now
that being said it took me many years to get things made but um yeah the actual
initial um you know get getting an agent wasn’t wasn’t that tough I I believe those
those mechanisms which didn’t really exist so much when I first started where you know various contests those those
those ways this the the agents and management companies have a sort of identifying calendar pretty efficient
you know if you write a good script someone’s gonna someone’s gonna call you you know at some point
um so so I I would I would not hesitate to to you know to send things in you
know people often are afraid of losing their idea and losing their you know and
and in my experience you know the macro is not going to be stolen I
mean the the town is very hungry for people to to have good ideas and and the value of identifying someone with good
ideas is more than the value of stealing their idea and so I I think you can
generally speaking with with well-known entities feel fairly good about you know
engaging and sending your your work around to be to be read if there’s a you know an established mechanism and
obviously if you register it with a guilt prior previously I do think that’s right which is today
there’s a lot more information available about people that you’re thinking about getting into business with and I think
yeah in general um you know if you get into business with good people who have good
reputations um the likelihood of you pitching an idea to them sending them a script for
possible representation that’s going to then end up someplace else doesn’t you
know happen you know too too often or I will say you know as a lawyer I get
materials submitted for clients all the time and we we have a very very strict
policy which is unless materials coming to us either through a recognizable
agent or an established lawyer we won’t take it on and actually I won’t read it
and I’ll send the material back because I never want to be in a position where somebody sent me a script to pass on say
to you and you know you never read it and all a sudden you know a movie gets
made and they think oh wait a minute but I sent you this you know idea so you do have to be you know careful
um yeah when I was when I was doing more genre driven things I don’t think there was ever a film that I had come come out
where someone didn’t raise their hand and threatened to sue because oh that was based on something I I wrote back
and you know yeah which of course I’d never seen or heard of but you know people people tend to obviously
overvalue their own originality uh and and and and and we all do it uh and
those situations situations are right but it is you know it’s a weird Catch-22 right because on the one hand nobody
wants unsolicited material on the other hand the only way you’re ever going to get anywhere is to get someone’s attention so
um I think being in the being in the social flow of Los Angeles I don’t live in Los Angeles in a habit in many years
but but I do think it was valuable to be out there at a certain point you know
um Charles obviously a lot of the work that you write is based on real life characters
um right and doing that kind of has its own you know sets of issues do you ever
you know get concerned sometimes you’re Crossing boundary lines in terms of
privacy and as a writer who’s you know worked on some often sensitive material how do you how do you address that issue
wow so that’s I do um uh I I maybe I I worry about it too
much in some ways um I I tend to meet people you know I’m not
a journalist so a lot of people will talk to me in fact everyone talks to me at the end of the day you know uh um if
they don’t talk to me they’re gonna talk to the actor playing them usually uh so almost always so so so I don’t I don’t
um I I try to make an effort to engage with them and you know I’m also interested in in capturing you know
capturing their people’s Humanity even if they’re somewhat villainous figure even if they’ve done things that are
wrong I’m interested in you know capturing something that’s beyond a sort
of journalistic you know um relatively easy black and white that
that that you get I I didn’t think that what newspapers and and to some degree magazines do is they you know as they
assign they assign sort of value roles to the world this is the this is the good person in the situation this is the
bad person and here’s where it’s a little ambiguous whereas I’m not interested in doing that at all I’m you know I’m much more interested in finding
you know uh the internal conflicts everyone no matter what role they play in the story uh and I think people sense
that you know um it is easier obviously if someone like Roger Ailes has passed away uh
although I was you know I attempted to be as fair with rodri
um thank you Charles um on some level of The Business of Being a writer has changed compared to
what it used to be you know five ten years ago I think you know in those days typically you know I’d make a deal for a
ride who would be guaranteed a draft a set of revisions and a Polish and and you’d have a reasonable level of comfort
that at least you were going to have a reasonable chance to get your vision um across and have an opportunity to
make revisions you know throughout that process today just because you know
development money is expensive and and people are not wanting to spend money unnecessarily
um I’ve certainly seen a change even at the higher end of the spectrum that people don’t necessarily want to make
three-step deals going in sometimes they want a treatment and just a first draft and maybe a set of revisions
which you know I would imagine from a writer’s perspective doesn’t give them a huge amount of confidence that at some
point you know they’re they’re not going to be replaced so how has that impacted
the way you know you look at a potential writing assignment and the way you work and I’m just curious you know how that
plays out yeah you know um I think about a lot especially when I produce right
and I’m I’m hiring other people um I did I did a pilot once with Patty
Jenkins and the Patty and I had a conflict with the network which will go unnamed
um because they wanted the the actress to wear lip gloss in a scene and Patty
said look this doesn’t make any sense it’s not you know and of course was ABC um so I’m now admitting what it was
um so uh it was it was one of those situations where you know you could have
kind of gone anywhere either way and he said you know something if if we do this if we if it’s not that it will change
anything but what it will do to me is it will affect a little bit of how I feel about the work
and what she was talking about is that thing that anyone who writes knows which is it’s like painting a wall you wanted
to make it as pristine as possible if there’s going to be a Nick in that wall and that Nick is always going to be
there and you can’t address it you know then it just sort of ruins a little bit of this relationship of perfection you
have to your labor which is so necessary for being totally immersed in it so the
difficulty with with rewriting I think is you know and knowing you’re going to
be Rewritten is that is that it takes it Robs a little bit of your ability to just imagine the world being totally
immersed in this world because you know you know that that’s actually not going to end up and or are you suspected
that’s not what’s going to end up on the screen and so so that’s you know that that’s the difficulty right is is that
is that flawed relationship to you know to your own imaginings your own writing
process that being said there are there are jobs I rewrote Munich I’m rewriting an Ocean’s thing now I mean there are
jobs where I go in knowing hey you know X is coming back Y is left can you come
in and just do it and and those those things can be a lot of fun and and and and and can be you can learn a lot right
by virtue of the fact that you know that what’s being created isn’t actually going to be in your voice so so it’s it
is uh I will say it is inherently dispiriting and I think it’s a mark of
bad producers when they communicate too much or who’s getting you know uh who who’s gonna be coming along or or they
may give the right of the feeling that this is very temporary um in terms of shielding yourself from
it I’m not sure if you don’t control the material there’s a lot you can do uh unless you sort of just insist on your
three steps or insist on on only you know getting taking money for for projects that you
know that someone’s interested in actually your voice and not your idea and and those situations tend to occur
in my experience and you probably know as much about it as I do uh when when someone’s really just after trying to glom onto an idea they’re not really
interested in the underlying person writing it it’s it’s hard because I think for Young
Writers um you know more often than not they’re not getting uh work brought to them for
assignments it’s it’s more likely to be the case where they’ve written you know
a script and now they want to get it out there and somebody comes along uh and they’re interested and they’re trying to
figure out how do I protect you know that Creative Vision which I’ve spent the last you know two or three years of
my life you know working on and for a young writer in particular it’s it’s
really challenging there are directors out there that insist no matter who the
writer is they have their person that they want to bring in to do you know a dialogue polish at the end to reflect
the nature of that yeah absolutely yeah and also almost there there are
directors who treat writers like talismans you know they’re they’re somebody that they just need to come in to feel secure about what’s going on
it’s a very messy messy business in that sense you know there’s always a calculus as a writer right and and what monies am
I taking in exchange for what I’m giving away creatively and how is this
affecting my career like one thing I no longer do is I no longer reduce when a
producer comes to me and says hey we will get this made but you like everyone else have to reduce you know and I just
I’m I sit producers now down down the minute I make a deal with them I say look don’t ever come to me for reduction
because I’m never going to do that so so that’s about sort of trying to
secure a certain income right based on my work on my belief that if a script is written and it is a Greek Go lit Go
movie it’s a green lit movie with quality Talent attached to it I have done my job now I have I have succeeded
in the task I set out to do and therefore the reduction should not be come from me it should come from whoever
else wants to come and try and do their job after because we’ll see if they succeed first and so it’s you know it’s
one of those things that but what did I early in my career agree to reduce to get things made yes I did right in order
to to to be able to to to to you know be in conversations about quality work and
hopefully be in the awards hunt and that sort of thing so so it just you know a lot of this stuff is about where you’re
at in your career and you will make choices early on that you don’t have to make later um but I think one of those is is is you
know letting things go in order to have a credit you know a produced credit which does make a difference you know uh
it’s important for writers to remember that not everyone possesses your ability to evaluate material what they possess
is their understanding of your leverage they possess your understanding of commerciality the Arena you’re writing about that sort of thing right and then
because of that it is sometimes necessary to sort of put away what you
think is best in order to make sure that you have some kind of success in those
other Arenas with those other taste palettes simply because that’s necessary for moving forward
I mean I think it’s very very difficult for a rider to make a deal where they
can’t be replaced at some point I think the best chance you have is if you’ve
written something on spec there are elements attached people are now bidding
to make yeah movie and somebody says look we would like you to do one set of comments or you know consider one set of
comments and maybe under that scenario you can agree you know that the writer will agree to do those comments but but
can’t be replaced but outside of that I think it’s it it’s very challenging so
to me it gets back to one of the points that I think you you raised previously is you
know make careful decisions about who you’re going to get into bed with because if you’ve gotta you’ve got to feel as a
writer the producer that you’re gonna align yourself with really shares your
Creative Vision and that you’re aligned and this is not just something that they want to immediately replace you with
someone else yeah yeah absolutely you know and it’s not about your emotional connection to them it’s about your ability to share an actual vision and
that’s really tough because you know at first everyone loves each other oh we’re gonna make the best movie of all time
you know we’re going to dinner we’re having the best time it’s a good deal whatever and then once you actually
start to work together you see oh no we have extremely different tastes and extremely different aspirations for what
this is supposed to be and you know um you know I think you see this probably often with with with people who you know
want to yeah my friend and I are gonna do a TV show and off they go and then you know within a year they’re sort of
pulling each other’s hair out because it’s just very difficult right when you’re doing the labor of writing which
is so personal and so dependent on my new show which is so you know driven by
a kind of ability to lay in bed at night and just imagine how a world exists and would exist and what would happen and so
it was so hard to do that collectively right in general and so you know we are
in some ways the least team player Types on any film set ever even on that Set uh
and therefore you need to think about that you need to think about you know am I going to be able to do this am I going
to be able to like get this through this person’s taste this person’s development
Executives this person’s aspirations to make it good
I think you know historically if you look back 10 15 years ago writers tended
to either be working in the feature Arena or in the television uh space and
obviously you know televisions become you know its own art form and and evolved a lot of the last you know five
five ten years you know for a young writer today do you think they should
understand and work in both genres should they start in one and and what do
you think is in the best interest of a writer who started well certainly yeah I mean certainly you know it’s there’s
just so much more um so many more jobs available in
television than in features right the feature business is tough you know it’s an increasingly tough on every level
um I prefer it you know I prefer movies to TV in general you know for me watching televisions often this feeling
of I can feel the Creator juggling to try and keep things alive I can feel the
algebra so to speak um behind what’s going on which which isn’t a good film I often I almost never
you know a good film I I don’t um um but but but in general yeah I
think writers have to you know have to to to to do whatever they can in whatever medium they can to sort of find
a way to express their voice whether it’s film television online whatever that thing is
um I think a big difference Craig in the last decade is I think a decade ago my advice to Young Writers that have been
you know write what you love you know I’m
come out to LA find a way to sort of be in the world and you will you know
you’ll find your place you’ll find a place and I just don’t know that that’s so easy I mean I think I think there was a
time where people of a certain educational status uh could could find other ways to sort of make make money if
they didn’t but they would always find their find a way right they’d always find a way into the business and and be
able to make a living nowadays almost I almost feel like telling Young Writers before you you know before you buy a
copy of final draft sit down and for eight hours think about the fact you may need an alternative
income stream and what could that possibly be you don’t have to have it but you need to be thinking about it you
need to have a plan work because it doesn’t matter if you’re the next Billy Wilder or if you’re some great Indie
voice that’s coming along or you’re somebody who’s got a great story since but not the best writer gonna make a killing as a producer or someone who’s
you know who doesn’t really ever make it you know and and and and and and yeah you know your friends and family like
your work but never really get get work and all four of those scenarios it helps
to have alternative income streams it just does right because you’re going to make you know even if you’re very
talented you’re going to be able to get there quicker if you you know if you have a plan right and and you know it’s
it’s one thing to to be able to do what you love it’s another thing to be able to almost do what you love but to be
doing something where you’re constantly being forced to do it in a way that’s not quite what you would want to do or
what you think is best and that can be utterly mad thing right and so in some
ways you know just if you’ll if you’ll think about how am I going to pay the bills and and and and not obsess about
it obviously you know um but but acknowledge the adult truth that people get to think about to get to ignore
money to the degree they’ve already thought about it um you know if you can if you can kind of figure out a way to do that then I
think you will you’ll be you’ll get quicker to the to the sort of status in the industry and and that allows you to
do the work you want to do Charles thank you so much
yeah appreciate your time and I have no doubt that the Young Writers who are uh
watching this have uh have learned some really great information so thank you so much uh anytime
um Cooper thank you so much for joining us uh this evening we really appreciate you taking the time to to join us
certainly let me start you obviously had a long
Association and affiliation with the Sundance Film Festival what what
motivated you to to start you know working at the festival way back when
well I’m motivated it’s kind of two-part story and I’ll how I got there was totally fake related
and it would take up so much time I don’t want to spend that night time now but when I got there what I was
attracted to was was the mission basically the physical manifestation of
a mission um it has structure and purpose I had read an article about the theater
um from Kathy Bates had written come to the labs it sounded intriguing I was um
I was burnt out living in New York and it just seemed like a place I wanted to
go and I fell in with some people and that was it I just my path is not to be
replicated I think is what I’m saying because there is no it’s all Fluke and fate related but um but what I did do is
every job that I did there I did to my best ability and I was
creative and Relentless in my pursuit of keeping a job at Sundance I guess
what what did you find inspiring about wanting to spend so much time at a film
festival I mean you you look at the path of most people who are programmers who work in festivals and you know some stay
around for a little while but people like you and Michelle Saturn people who run some other festivals you know it
becomes a career path so I’m curious what’s the inspiration for doing that and we were inventing the career path
there wasn’t a festival career path especially in the United States maybe in Europe there had been you know the older
festivals but not in America I think for me as inspired by each time was the
personal growth that they allowed me there they allowed me to do things um
Redford was a big part of that of course his his inspiration and and and wanting
to build it himself and how you’re always learning things a lot of it was it wasn’t built before that so
we were allowed to like do things and that is very intriguing to me and I think that was it I mean all my
in the later years I really adapted these two guiding principles were keeping vital and competitive and that
was that was really it for me um the challenge of building something I think
was what intrigued me I mean it it it’s interesting I remember
looking I don’t know 10 12 years ago there’s a website that tracks
um all the different festivals that are going on around the world and it seems to me that I’m almost every day of the
year there’s at least one or multiple festivals going on on on on on somewhere
right um and so from a festival perspective how do you how do you
continue to you know to to be um you know relevant
um I think what well first of all there’s like two kinds of festivals too there’s the local festivals and then there’s the
destination festivals where you draw people in from all sorts of other places for a purpose
for a value to them so that’s also part of it and Sundance was always a
destination which was different than a lot of the festivals that built up and it was a destination that was built on
um the two things there there it was built
on discovery of new Talent which had a which had a p point of view of that
Festival I think that’s what kind of Sundance always had um Discovery
um was was that and then when you when you’re choosing a festival and when you come to Festival there’s
two kinds there’s kinds where you go to sell your film and then there’s where you go to launch your film into the
marketplace um into theaters now even onto streaming and into during to the award season
those that’s a whole kind of the launching of your film is different than selling your film and Sundance was a
film where you sold your place where you sold your film and that was important so you’re creating uh you know a need for
that there was a uh a void in the system of where you can go do that with an
independent film so did I answer your question maybe I did um
but did Sundance start out expecting that it was going to become a market
festival or was it really the intention originally just to kind of give the the
market an opportunity or consumers to come to a festival in a great location and watch films that they might
otherwise hope you know to see there there was no market then we the
market created around us is you know when you think about that fateful year when a Sex Lies and videotape
all of a sudden it was about ideas and a place to come and join with other talented people but then it became oh
there’s money to be made off of this thing and the the moment became many
moments became a wave and now it’s like uh independent film is a thing you know it’s a it’s a
it’s a way of it’s a genre almost of filmmaking
I mean interesting because I I was thinking when I was at Sundance this year I’ve been to I think
27 out of 30 sundances and I was actually there for you know for sex
lives videotape and it was actually it was a very different kind of experience in those days because you’d go and you
really knew nothing about the films no one had really seen the films in advance of the festival uh and there was there
was something you know exciting about that um today I think a lot of the films
that get in you know to the festivals the filmmakers have lawyers and agents and managers and sometimes they’ve been
sold and sometimes they haven’t been sold and so that that part has you know
definitely changed and I guess that’s part of the evolution of
in a destination and and Market kind of festivals but there’s definitely a
feeling I think especially with the growth of the streamers um that perhaps there is a shift in the
role that you know that festivals are are going to be playing you know going
forward and I think even festivals like you know Toronto and and can and
everyone suffered I think a lot during covert are now having to reevaluate you
know what is the role of the festival going to be going forward so I’m curious you know for your thoughts on that
and some of it is is very much the same at the same time even with when the
industry changes around you you’re still there to present new talent and Discovery that’s what Sundance does
anyway and and as long as there’s a need for that there’s a Vitality there for
that as well um I think that um um
it’s it’s it’s changed and then it hasn’t changed you know it’s still because
you’re also you you shifted and you know about the films now because you’re in there’s the industry around it but for
an audience member all this is new all of this is Discovery they’re not they’re
not reading articles or are tracking the careers of these filmmakers that come to Sundance before this is our first
introduction to them and there’s a magic to that that is still there
um and out of that magic the industry gets to see
the true um how a film really works because they’re playing in front of an audience
for the first time so it’s the best way to present your film to sell your film
because you’re getting the true reaction of an audience to this um this product
that you’ve made and that is that is again that’s it’s a magical moment where
stuff can really sell because it’s proven you’re proving all along that there’s an audience for this stuff
it’s in you know it’s funny I haven’t really thought about it in that context but you’re right because I find that
when I’m standing online talking to people who are waiting to get on you know to get into the theater or sitting
in my seat waiting for the film to start and listening to the discussion of people who’s in the audience that
there’s definitely two distinct audiences there are those people who are there to look at films and buy films and
then there’s the people who are coming who are watching four or five films a day you know for a week and that’s kind
of inspiring to think that that business and that interest you know still
um exists and I went I went to Sundance this year as a civilian which which
meant I I learned a lot of what I took for granted back in the day
it’s like wow there are so many films it is so hard to comprehend the Slate now
I’m um I’m almost in a mindset of there’s too much there’s just too much
to take in and it’s really exciting and you’re going down those paths but but it
is it is a lot to take on and and there’s there’s still a lot of talent coming up every year waves of this
talent that are coming up in what what does the industry do with that and what does the audience do with that are
two different things one of the things that I think is a challenge for for young filmmakers is
you know they’re always trying to decide when they’ve got their film that perhaps doesn’t have the broad representation
that some of them do is to you know which festivals you know to apply to and
you know Sundance gets thousands and thousands of movies submitted and you
can only screen you know 100 120 130 whatever it is and there’s always that
difficult decision I think for filmmakers is to one what festivals
should they apply to to a lot of festivals want to have a premier
screening and you know what do they do if they get accepted at one Festival uh
recognizing that you know they if they say yes then they may no longer be
eligible for Sundance or some other festival so what are the things that you know directors or producers should be
taking into consider generation when trying to decide you know what festival to apply to
I think what you always do is you have a world premiere and you only have one of them so that’s your first big decision
so you go out you go out thinking big first you know I’m gonna go to the next
biggest I’m gonna apply to the next biggest where usually it’s to sell my
film most independent films are looking for a deal of some sort of a streaming
whatever it is but they’re looking to um get into the mark into the
marketplace somehow through through the Festival um so that’s your first choice and then
after that it’s then you come down a level it’s like well I can still do that
job at other festivals I might have to work a little harder at it and then you go down even smarter I might even have
to work harder at it and then there’s even if you don’t get into any festivals then what do you do and then you have to
get really creative so festivals are just like a shortcut they’re in the journey you know they’re
great for that it’s fantastic when it happens but it also can’t discourage you
if you believe in your film that there is a place for it
um people always ask me you know is there some
trick to getting in you know to a to a to a festival you know do you need to
have an agent or a lawyer or a producer you know with a track record
um maybe you could tell describe briefly the process of what goes on and trying to get into a festival like Sundance
because I often think that people think that you know if they don’t have a team of people around them their film’s not
even going to get considered yeah I don’t I think that can almost work against you
somehow we are also in the in the in the the game of Discovery so nothing Thrills
you more when a film comes through that no one else really knows about and you see the Excellence in it like
um I think back to like Napoleon Dynamite which what we just felt that there was
something there but it didn’t come in with a lot of energy from Agents or or anybody it just you know did it on its
own um so those things can help they help in guidance let’s say they
help all those different entities and those people can help you with with
guidance but at the same time you know I think we were talking about this earlier in the
panel good is good and the good film good things happen to it eventually it might be a harder Road you have to get
clever you have to be observant you have to communicate all those things but um
I think there’s um it’s still the easiest path is doing
your own work I’m giving like advice now for a filmmaker do the easy stuff make
sure that you submit all the right materials that you have a good photo that you have
everything so the festival team doesn’t have to come back and you help you straighten out
what your submission is it really helps things move so fast
in these festivals once you’re selected the selection process is grueling and it’s fast you want to have everything as
good as possible in your submission you know film freeway now is the website that
everybody uses make sure your synopsis is good make sure everything is good and
then and then save that that time for Experts
of other things probably for the sale of a film and later on the Distributors
will decide what your next Festival is because now they own it now they’re presenting it into a Marketplace and
what festival can give it a leg up in finding audience is really the next step
so and then really as as I guess is the last question once you get into the
festival and you’re a young filmmaker I mean what should you be doing to
maximize you know your experience at being there should you hire a publicist
you know should you have I mean how do you most take advantage of of that
moment right and there’s you always have to think of two different paths to a short
film is different than a feature so let’s just talk about features because shorts is another
kind of crazy way to be discovered but usually not for your short your dreams
discovered for a project for a job down the line um um I think it’s how you come in how
you communicate you have to think about that the two biggest questions are are
what is are you a filmmaker here at the festival how do you answer that how do you get your
your personal pits organized so you’re clear at a party anywhere you are that
people leave remembering you and sharing your passion about film your film and
about filmmaking in general that’s what you’re bringing to it it’s really it’s not as complicated as people want it to
be it’s pretty straightforward it’s probably like getting a job like you know they have many many books and on
how to get a job or an internship and you know how you present yourself it’s the same thing you know you’re
your you’re you’re selling all the time but you’re not selling with salesmanship
all the time you’re selling with Clarity and pure passion is the greatest sales you can have
yeah I’ve always thought for a lot of the young filmmakers
um that I’ve represented over the years that that sometimes not every film is going to get sold at a festival whether
it’s Sundance or another Festival but it is an opportunity still for producers
and talents and other people to see something that exists that creates a vision and it’s from that that you you
get to build on and I’ve seen that you know with um a lot of my clients
um thank you so much for that um it is definitely a question that always gets asked by by the young filmmakers that we
come into contact with um sadly we’re out of time for any more
questions so I really would like to say thank you to our three incredible panelists both I and our audience is so
appreciative you all taking the time to join us in today’s discussion you’ve
left our audience with a lot of valuable information which I know that they’re going to uh benefit from finally just a
reminder to all of you who are watching this panel our final session for this year’s series of discussion
um we’ll take place on May 18 and focus on issues involving animation which I’m
sure will be um another great discussion for further information about the March
on Washington film festival and our programming throughout the year please go to the website which is much on
Washington filmfestival.org for our panelists and
for our audience thank you so much for joining us this evening
[Music]
thank you
